What have you done to your 400/45/ZS today?
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Good read this.
Note to anyone reading this. NEVER USE Bi-Hex ( 12-point ) sockets on any nuts or bolts. Particularly on those never touched sinc eleaving the factory new or worst still, over tightened by uncaring use of power tools in the pro-environment. Asking for trouble as many thousands of spanner jockeys have discovered much to their chagrin. ALWAYS use Hex-Sockets ( Six-Flats ) of Good quality. Less risk of damaging those all important flats on Nuts and Bolt heads. Also good quality Penetrating Fluid ( NOT WD40! ) and a good quality blow torch to use heat on them is also a great help. I invested in a Rothenburger Blow Torch a few years ago and it can make a big difference on stubborn fasteners which avoids problems like sheered off corroded Brake Caliper Bleed Nipples ( Oh the Deep Joy when that happens .. not! ) .. These useful tools are a good investment and if you shop around, need not be too expensive. Some of the better quality tools like my Black and Decker Electric drill bought fifty years ago still working perfectly. Used it today. Good tools can last a lifetime. Buy the best available when you can afford to and if not, buy the best you can afford. Good tools can make a world of difference. Saving much time and money as the years go by.
Note to anyone reading this. NEVER USE Bi-Hex ( 12-point ) sockets on any nuts or bolts. Particularly on those never touched sinc eleaving the factory new or worst still, over tightened by uncaring use of power tools in the pro-environment. Asking for trouble as many thousands of spanner jockeys have discovered much to their chagrin. ALWAYS use Hex-Sockets ( Six-Flats ) of Good quality. Less risk of damaging those all important flats on Nuts and Bolt heads. Also good quality Penetrating Fluid ( NOT WD40! ) and a good quality blow torch to use heat on them is also a great help. I invested in a Rothenburger Blow Torch a few years ago and it can make a big difference on stubborn fasteners which avoids problems like sheered off corroded Brake Caliper Bleed Nipples ( Oh the Deep Joy when that happens .. not! ) .. These useful tools are a good investment and if you shop around, need not be too expensive. Some of the better quality tools like my Black and Decker Electric drill bought fifty years ago still working perfectly. Used it today. Good tools can last a lifetime. Buy the best available when you can afford to and if not, buy the best you can afford. Good tools can make a world of difference. Saving much time and money as the years go by.
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So I've done it and yes this is the case - it's obvious when you think about it. Remove the top bolts on the drop links on both sides at the same time and the whole anti-roll bar rotates out of the way.
The car now has a full set of un-cracked bushes, and shiny nuts and bolts.
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Aaand it's off.
For reference this is how I did it - for those with a Mk1 with a red-locking ring (the Mk2 is allegedly push fit):
- Over the last week, between downpours, I sprayed it with penetrating oil. I don't know if that helped, but maybe.
- Today: first got some molegrips on the base and tube (using some cut rubber piping on the grips to avoid damage) and twisted it, trying to break any rust. No idea if this helped either.
- The got a couple of large flat bladed screwdrivers on it - twisting until the red-locking ring was broken then twisting again to force the pipe upwards about 5mm. It then pulled out easily.
There was a lot of rusty sludge to clean up and the pipe needs some gentle sanding for a good seal.
The front plate of the KV6 is now off and today's other work was removing the intake. I wasn't going to remove that, but the truth is that it's really easy to remove and vastly improves access to the rear bank's left-hand belt.
Another unpleasant surprise was found under the engine's front plate: a coolant leak out of the water pump. Never mind: got my new one from DMGRS to fit!
I'm saving up the details and photos for a big how-to post after I'm finished, so I'll leave you with one image that I've never seen posted before: a visual explanation of why there is a special process for checking the oil-level on the KV6.
You can see an explanation here - from some guys who were involved in the KV6's development (rip 1995diesel): Dipstick on KV6
This is a picture of the dipstick fully inserted into the tube:
UPDATE:
End of the weekend and the current state is that I've got the old belt off, and put the new tensioner pulley, idler pulley and water pump back on. I'm reusing the old tensioner, which has been primed and pinned ready. The front cam pulleys have been removed, cleaned and reinstalled with new finger-tight bolts and awaiting the belt fitting (the KV6 has pulleys that float a few degrees at the front during fitting). I also changed a plastic cam sprocket backing plate, as a rusty screw meant I broke the old one! Surprisingly cheap from RimmerBros, too.
The water pump was not a perfect fit. I had to file out one bolt hole to get it to line up with the engine.
The cheap timing kit also needed some filing down to fit, and I had to disassemble the front locking tools as they were assembled back to front!!
My worry is that the engine may not have been in time correctly. With the crank in 'Safe', I could use the tools to lock the rear bank in time but not the front, being a degree out. I have a theory that the front cam may have jumped a tooth - I don't know if it would have run so well in that state though.
After some major work a couple of years ago, the engine was down on power and felt like it was pinking under full throttle - I put that down to a couple of sensors that failed afterwards. I wonder if the timing was knocked out instead? It wasn't majorly sick, just fel old..!
I also found that the tensioner pulley was sticking, though of course it could only stick in positions that give tighter belts.
UPDATE 24/06/2020:
A sneaky Wednesday update. I stole some time this evening and the new front belt is now fitted and tensioned. Setting up the tensioner is not clear but between a mix of 1955diesel's comments and the INA/Schaffler-Aftermarket instruction PDF I got it perfect - able to remove and reinsert the tensioner's locking pin under natural belt tension 👍 I will write up what I did and the pitfalls to avoid.
Tomorrow, I will torque up the camshaft bolts and rotate the engine. After two turns, the camshaft locking tools should fit back in if it's timed up right...
UPDATE 28/06/2020:
Front cam pulleys torqued up - I rotated the engine one cycled (two crank turns) and the front bank wasn't in time! Rotated several more times, and it came into time every single turn with the locking tools fitting perfectly each time. Phew. I guess the belt needed to settle and the tensioner to set appropriately.
I've got the front bank's pulleys off and they are currently sat on the workbench with the new belt, fitting tool and spreader fitted, and then I was rained off again..
UPDATE 05/07/2020:
One month into the job (!!!) and the engine is finally back together. Reassembly was nice and easy overall, just the usual KV6 issue of working out how which tool and what contortions to reach each fitting. I got rained off (yet again) before filling with oil and coolant.
It's been a month, but total hours is probably around 12. I have limited free time, then it's doubly worse getting rained off when I get some time to do any work!
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Following from the last post: on Sunday evening I fitted a new oil filter and filled the engine with fresh oil and coolant. I pulled the fuse for the petrol pump and span the engine over for a few minutes, got oil pressure and kept going to make sure.
Fuse back in, primed the pump a few times using the key, then started it up.
The usual four turns and it fired up - then panic. tap tap tap tap tap from the top of the engine...
Is it a valve hitting a piston? Can't be - I checked and checked.
Have the butterfly valves in the intake finally disintegrated?
Did I drop a bolt down an intake pipe?!
Has oil reached the cams? It was almost totally dry, having been stood empty of oil for weeks.
Sounds like an injector. But no misfire.
It's running, it revs, it seems to be fine, some vibration but that's the stupid poly-bushed engine mount. Or is it?
I settle in to the thought that I've managed to set the timing up wrong - was I suppose to time against the locking pin instead of the crankshaft mark, which I used? Were the cheap timing tools kit a mistake? Late into the night as I can't sleep, searching the internet for info about timing issues, I come to terms with having to go through the epic disassembly again. Perhaps having to change some valves. Perhaps having to change the engine.
Tuesday evening I'm walking past the car and decide to start it up for the hell of it.
Four turns on the starter motor, it fires up all smooth and quiet. The only sound is the whine of fresh belts on new tensioners.
I don't know what the tapping was. If it stops raining tomorrow, I'll get the wheels on it and take it for a test drive.
Fuse back in, primed the pump a few times using the key, then started it up.
The usual four turns and it fired up - then panic. tap tap tap tap tap from the top of the engine...
Is it a valve hitting a piston? Can't be - I checked and checked.
Have the butterfly valves in the intake finally disintegrated?
Did I drop a bolt down an intake pipe?!
Has oil reached the cams? It was almost totally dry, having been stood empty of oil for weeks.
Sounds like an injector. But no misfire.
It's running, it revs, it seems to be fine, some vibration but that's the stupid poly-bushed engine mount. Or is it?
I settle in to the thought that I've managed to set the timing up wrong - was I suppose to time against the locking pin instead of the crankshaft mark, which I used? Were the cheap timing tools kit a mistake? Late into the night as I can't sleep, searching the internet for info about timing issues, I come to terms with having to go through the epic disassembly again. Perhaps having to change some valves. Perhaps having to change the engine.
Tuesday evening I'm walking past the car and decide to start it up for the hell of it.
Four turns on the starter motor, it fires up all smooth and quiet. The only sound is the whine of fresh belts on new tensioners.
I don't know what the tapping was. If it stops raining tomorrow, I'll get the wheels on it and take it for a test drive.
My partner says I've spent a lot more than 12 hours on it..
This is far from rare when an engine has had extensive adjustment, renewals, rebuild or repair.
I expect a noisy "Diesel" like clacketty-clack on those first few start ups. In my strictly amateur but still extensive experience, I'm convinced the prime cause of this is due to "sticky" Cam Followers. Also known as "Tappets" ... Sticky so that they are a fraction behind following the Cam Lobes. Once the Oil helps reduce that stickiness, they do follow as designed to do and even the noisiest then usually settle down to a healthy sounding low level Valve Gear "Rustle" noise as your engine now appears to have done.
Hydraulic Cam Followers usually have spring load internal valves whichfill up from oil pressure ( it's very high pressure ) to the valve gear as the revs rise. That helps reduce the start up noise.
Over the years, several used cars I've bought show signs of not having their oil changed at the recommended intervals. One or two thick and treacle like ...YUK. Twenty years ago I would drop that old muck oil HOT and replace it with Diesel Grade oil in PETROL engines, Run the car for a few hundred miles with that in their engines and then drain it hot and fill with good brand Oil of the correct grade ... usually 10-40 S-S for most of my cars. Diesel Grade engine oil apparently back then had a range of effective detergents in it as diesels run far dirtier than petrols. That process helped.
More recently with such cars with uncertain oil maintenance ( that despite what their previous owners tell me its had a pro-service recently ~ that's no guarantee the oil has been changed ) I use a different treatment. I drain the old oil muck hot and fill the engine to the MAX index of the Dip Stick with DIESEL FUEL. Yes, fuel not engine oil and run the car gently for five or six miles and mid-revs maximum. Then back home carefully and drain the Diesel Fuel hot. The filth that treatment dislodges is always a surprise. Then in with the correct grade Engine Oil. In every case, that has seen benefits from better throttle response and even fuel consumption. Best of all, near silent Cam Followers. The desel fuel removes most of the old oil "Varnish" built up on those cam followers allowing them to follow and do the job they are designed to do properly without any stickiness.
Diesel fuel is in fact OIL. That's why some call Diesels Oil Burners. The fuel described as Heavy Oil on those old DVLA Vehicle details ... maybe still does.
WARNING.. Please note I am NOT recommending this process, only that it works for me but I do it carefully.
Tappets. A name I usually associated with push rod over head valve gear. Extensive work on those rarely if ever shows that Clacketty-clack on first engine start ups when adjusted properly.
Finally. The attached image shows some diesel fuel and what it looks like having been used as a flush to cleanse out the muck lurking in many old engines which show signs of not being serviced correctly.
Keep safe and keep these nice old cars running for many more years. That's my plan.
I expect a noisy "Diesel" like clacketty-clack on those first few start ups. In my strictly amateur but still extensive experience, I'm convinced the prime cause of this is due to "sticky" Cam Followers. Also known as "Tappets" ... Sticky so that they are a fraction behind following the Cam Lobes. Once the Oil helps reduce that stickiness, they do follow as designed to do and even the noisiest then usually settle down to a healthy sounding low level Valve Gear "Rustle" noise as your engine now appears to have done.
Hydraulic Cam Followers usually have spring load internal valves whichfill up from oil pressure ( it's very high pressure ) to the valve gear as the revs rise. That helps reduce the start up noise.
Over the years, several used cars I've bought show signs of not having their oil changed at the recommended intervals. One or two thick and treacle like ...YUK. Twenty years ago I would drop that old muck oil HOT and replace it with Diesel Grade oil in PETROL engines, Run the car for a few hundred miles with that in their engines and then drain it hot and fill with good brand Oil of the correct grade ... usually 10-40 S-S for most of my cars. Diesel Grade engine oil apparently back then had a range of effective detergents in it as diesels run far dirtier than petrols. That process helped.
More recently with such cars with uncertain oil maintenance ( that despite what their previous owners tell me its had a pro-service recently ~ that's no guarantee the oil has been changed ) I use a different treatment. I drain the old oil muck hot and fill the engine to the MAX index of the Dip Stick with DIESEL FUEL. Yes, fuel not engine oil and run the car gently for five or six miles and mid-revs maximum. Then back home carefully and drain the Diesel Fuel hot. The filth that treatment dislodges is always a surprise. Then in with the correct grade Engine Oil. In every case, that has seen benefits from better throttle response and even fuel consumption. Best of all, near silent Cam Followers. The desel fuel removes most of the old oil "Varnish" built up on those cam followers allowing them to follow and do the job they are designed to do properly without any stickiness.
Diesel fuel is in fact OIL. That's why some call Diesels Oil Burners. The fuel described as Heavy Oil on those old DVLA Vehicle details ... maybe still does.
WARNING.. Please note I am NOT recommending this process, only that it works for me but I do it carefully.
Tappets. A name I usually associated with push rod over head valve gear. Extensive work on those rarely if ever shows that Clacketty-clack on first engine start ups when adjusted properly.
Finally. The attached image shows some diesel fuel and what it looks like having been used as a flush to cleanse out the muck lurking in many old engines which show signs of not being serviced correctly.
Keep safe and keep these nice old cars running for many more years. That's my plan.
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Hi all,
I haven't managed to put together my write up on the timing belt change yet, but I do promise to post it up! I took too many pictures to waste them 😄
The car is running absolutely fine. Clearly it was just the need for oil to run around the engine to quiet it down. I have no worries about gunk inside the engine - having done every oil change on it, it spent the first part of its life having an oil change every 3 months at ~7500 miles and then every 12 months at ~2000 miles.
It went for MoT yesterday and emissions were spot on, helping ease my timing related fears. In general, a really clean pass - I had the local garage give it a good once-over and they spotted only a missing split pin and the start of corrosion on the rear suspension arms.
The only other thing I've done recently is change the battery. My Bosch battery finally gave up after 10 years service (triggering thoughts of "oh no, did I damage a wire?"), replaced with a Yuasa from Tanya batteries.
I haven't managed to put together my write up on the timing belt change yet, but I do promise to post it up! I took too many pictures to waste them 😄
The car is running absolutely fine. Clearly it was just the need for oil to run around the engine to quiet it down. I have no worries about gunk inside the engine - having done every oil change on it, it spent the first part of its life having an oil change every 3 months at ~7500 miles and then every 12 months at ~2000 miles.
It went for MoT yesterday and emissions were spot on, helping ease my timing related fears. In general, a really clean pass - I had the local garage give it a good once-over and they spotted only a missing split pin and the start of corrosion on the rear suspension arms.
The only other thing I've done recently is change the battery. My Bosch battery finally gave up after 10 years service (triggering thoughts of "oh no, did I damage a wire?"), replaced with a Yuasa from Tanya batteries.
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Today:
This may have been damaged during the timing belt change, or it was just worn out.
The first clue was the vibration at idle (mentioned before) which started immediately after the belt change. It turns out that this mount is oil-filled and had failed, so engine vibration was being transmitted direct to the body.
I had spotted oil on the front of the engine during a routine check on Wednesday -
![135548]()
Of course, having had the oil cooler lines off less than a hundred miles ago, I immediately thought the worst. But on closer inspection, I realised that oil was only on the aux belt tensioner and the engine mount - and there are no oil lines or gaskets in that area.
Here's the oil actually running down the engine mount:
![135549]()
Old and new:
![135550]()
![135551]()
I've read some horror stories about new hydramounts being poor quality and failing quickly, so I'm keeping an eye on this. First scare was the mount turning white when the weight of the engine was put on it! Fortunately, that's a rubber preservation coating:
![135552]()
But I am a bit worried that it seems to have dropped some watery oil too. I've read online that this too may be a preservation function.
Fuel filler pipe
Basically, it was so rusty that the flakes of rust were lifting the rubber pipe away down where it connects to the fuel tank, so with a full tank it was dripping petrol - expensive and dangerous. It took some effort to scrape the rust off of the rubber pipe! I've fitted a new pipe and used a better jubilee clip. My only issue is that the new pipe is off a diesel... no major problem but would allow a diesel pump to fit if I have a major brainfart.
![135553]()
(Yes, the breather is pushed as far as it'll go. Both old and new pipes were the same fit.)
- Replaced the RHS engine hydramount.
- Replaced the fuel filler pipe.
- Re-glued my headlining, as part of it was sagging again.
This may have been damaged during the timing belt change, or it was just worn out.
The first clue was the vibration at idle (mentioned before) which started immediately after the belt change. It turns out that this mount is oil-filled and had failed, so engine vibration was being transmitted direct to the body.
I had spotted oil on the front of the engine during a routine check on Wednesday -
Of course, having had the oil cooler lines off less than a hundred miles ago, I immediately thought the worst. But on closer inspection, I realised that oil was only on the aux belt tensioner and the engine mount - and there are no oil lines or gaskets in that area.
Here's the oil actually running down the engine mount:
Old and new:
I've read some horror stories about new hydramounts being poor quality and failing quickly, so I'm keeping an eye on this. First scare was the mount turning white when the weight of the engine was put on it! Fortunately, that's a rubber preservation coating:
But I am a bit worried that it seems to have dropped some watery oil too. I've read online that this too may be a preservation function.
Fuel filler pipe
Basically, it was so rusty that the flakes of rust were lifting the rubber pipe away down where it connects to the fuel tank, so with a full tank it was dripping petrol - expensive and dangerous. It took some effort to scrape the rust off of the rubber pipe! I've fitted a new pipe and used a better jubilee clip. My only issue is that the new pipe is off a diesel... no major problem but would allow a diesel pump to fit if I have a major brainfart.
I fixed my clutch today.
Since i got the car in january the pedal goes almost the floor before you can get it in gear. Took the pedal off today to find the pivot that holds the slave cylinder arm on had ovalized both the clutch pedal casting and the slave arm causing about 3-4mm of play before the slave arm actually moves!
The original pivot was 8mm so i have used a step drill to drill both holes out to 10mm so they are now perfectly round, and refitted with an M10 bolt, and nylock nut.
Much better and free!
My dad says its as good as any of his Rovers which all have half the mileage of mine.
Since i got the car in january the pedal goes almost the floor before you can get it in gear. Took the pedal off today to find the pivot that holds the slave cylinder arm on had ovalized both the clutch pedal casting and the slave arm causing about 3-4mm of play before the slave arm actually moves!
The original pivot was 8mm so i have used a step drill to drill both holes out to 10mm so they are now perfectly round, and refitted with an M10 bolt, and nylock nut.
Much better and free!
My dad says its as good as any of his Rovers which all have half the mileage of mine.
Excellent way to solve a problem. Well done, good clear image too. One question. What is a step drill? Is that a bit conical in shape so you can progressively enlarge holes to suit? Do not know what those are called.I fixed my clutch today.
Since i got the car in january the pedal goes almost the floor before you can get it in gear. Took the pedal off today to find the pivot that holds the slave cylinder arm on had ovalized both the clutch pedal casting and the slave arm causing about 3-4mm of play before the slave arm actually moves!
The original pivot was 8mm so i have used a step drill to drill both holes out to 10mm so they are now perfectly round, and refitted with an M10 bolt, and nylock nut.
Much better and free!
My dad says its as good as any of his Rovers which all have half the mileage of mine.
Due to my bones, muscles and joints objecting, I really dislike working in the driver's footwell under the steering wheel and column.. Last time I did that was to fit a new Clutch Slave Cylinder in my MG ZT ... Really nasty job due to difficulty with restricted access and location. Not recommended that job.
Yeah thats the ones...i got a set of Amazon like these but i think they were "tacklife" branded;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hiveseen-M.../B073QSPND1/ref=psdc_1939199031_t2_B073WDDV2N
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hiveseen-M.../B073QSPND1/ref=psdc_1939199031_t2_B073WDDV2N
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Cor, doing this can’t have been easy! You must be a bit of a contortionist.
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Today:
Fitted the winter tyres - months late, but we're hardly driving anywhere!
Fitted a private number plate.
The car needs new trailing arm bushes but my normal local garage refuses to do it, in case the bolts snap... 🤷♂️
I'm not sure what to do about it now!
Fitted the winter tyres - months late, but we're hardly driving anywhere!
Fitted a private number plate.
The car needs new trailing arm bushes but my normal local garage refuses to do it, in case the bolts snap... 🤷♂️
I'm not sure what to do about it now!
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could you provide new replacement bolts to them before they start?
they probably just don’t fancy the job, when there are so many newer cars needing easier repairs.
Could be.
This is not a difficult job for any half decent repair outfit. The one I use on Industrial Estate at Innsworth Gloucester charged me £80 labour total~ I supplied the two large Bushes. Two cars needed doing, my wife's MG ZS 120 and my Rover 45 1.8 Connoisseur. ~ the latter a tad oddly tail happy with odd handling on negative camber roundabouts. Transformed both cars.
It was some six-seven years ago so may be a tad dearer now. I turned up at just after 8 am, then let the 1 sometimes two man "Old School" outfit to get on with it whilst I walked to the nearby Cafe and had an English Breakfast. Less than an hour later I walked back to see the car outside the unit... jobs all done.
There is good service and value out there. Trick is finding it.
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I gave the garage a full set of bolts (as well as the bushes) for the rear suspension when I dropped it off - and I mean everything that even might be removed. The worry was not replacing the bolts but "if they snapped, then to remove them they have cut open the metal from inside the car". It had got as far as being put on the lift before they aborted the work.
I literally was told that it was more worth their time time on the lift to do brake pads and discs than do this. The thing is I don't care about costs and I'm happy to have the whole of the rear suspension renewed if they thought that was necessary! This is my baby and it gets whatever it needs...
They've done me okay in the past but even then I have been given the messages about how bad Rovers are when I pick it up. Even the brake fluid reservoir cap is apparently 'not correct'.
I'd decided to try doing it myself but I don't really have the equipment, time or skills for this sort of thing. Certainly not in winter.
The bushes are really bad visually but there's no big movement in them yet. It doesn't feel stable which of course is the problem - and that affects the enjoyment of driving the car.
I literally was told that it was more worth their time time on the lift to do brake pads and discs than do this. The thing is I don't care about costs and I'm happy to have the whole of the rear suspension renewed if they thought that was necessary! This is my baby and it gets whatever it needs...
They've done me okay in the past but even then I have been given the messages about how bad Rovers are when I pick it up. Even the brake fluid reservoir cap is apparently 'not correct'.
I'd decided to try doing it myself but I don't really have the equipment, time or skills for this sort of thing. Certainly not in winter.
The bushes are really bad visually but there's no big movement in them yet. It doesn't feel stable which of course is the problem - and that affects the enjoyment of driving the car.
sadly this is the case in alot of garages, you will need to find a classic car/mgr dedicated garage, there are a fair few around
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