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It is a shame really as I like the car and clearly this does not seem to affect later vehicles. If they got in touch now and said we will give you a new one and then go away, I would probably be happy with that.

The Ombudsman advisors hope to get me the full amount as the Dekra report suggest the rust is coming from behind the panels so no way I could really have found the issue as the pre 6 month mark for a full refund. The only downside with the ombudsman is it will take between 6-12 months to resolve. In the end I don't see why I should be out of pocket for something that's not my doing.

Have to say the website has seen a real lot of interest and still does even without commenting on anything to drive traffic. It's only fair people have the facts before making a decision on a new car.
 

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Hi Glenn,



Thanks for the update, it sounds like the Deka report is going to do what it's supposed to do and get the vehicle rejected which is a shame as it's not the fact that the car design is at fault but in the execution.



It does seem like SAIC moved production following the 18 reg models and perhaps a certain batch was affected.



Have you thought about reporting this to BBC's Watchdog in case that they might take an interest?



Have you found out from the ombudsman how much loss in the value of the car you are expected to take as the car is being used?



There is normally some sort of calculation used in conjunction with mileage I think.



Cheers..
50p per mile covered is the usual going rate so can become very expensive quickly. I've just found this out myself being expected to accept a £1000 reduction in price for using a car for 5 weeks and 2000 miles. Needless to say I argued the toss big style and got the figure down to £400 in the end. Sadly people are often unaware of milage usage charge when rejecting a car. In my case I didn't even reject the car the dealer was unable to fix it and unwilling to spend any more time or money trying to fix it after 5 weeks of having the car back.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Sadly people are often unaware of milage usage charge when rejecting a car. In my case I didn't even reject the car the dealer was unable to fix it and unwilling to spend any more time or money trying to fix it after 5 weeks of having the car back.
If the manufacturer couldn't claw back some of the value in the car, then technically you'd be having the use of the car for that period before rejection without any downsides.

I must admit that 50p per mile does seem a bit excessive.

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Discussion Starter #44
The EV prototype models are Z coded as well.

Interestingly, the ZS EV models which were used as reviewer cars seems to have Z in the VIN as well.



VIN = SDPW7C83FKZ093820



This might explain why MG Motor UK were a bit silent with regards to the origins of the car that you had bought.

Source video:


Cheers..
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
KIA anti-perforation warranty vs MG

KIA's one:

Anti-perforation limited warranty
Kia warrants that the body sheet metal parts* of a new Kia car are free of defects in material or workmanship that lead to perforation (holes through the body panel from the inside out) as a result of corrosion – we’ve set out the exceptions to this below.

An authorised Kia dealer will either repair or replace – at no cost – any sheet metal panel* that has perforated due to corrosion resulting from defects in material or workmanship.

*Roof panel, doors, bonnet, tailgate, boot lid, sills, pillars, front wings, rear quarter panels and rear panel.

https://www.kia.com/uk/innovation/7-year-warranty/terms-and-exclusions/

MG's one:

Anti-Perforation
The Warranty Period

The Anti-Perforation Warranty cover’s the vehicle against perforation due to rust-through of the body panels for 7 years.

For this cover to remain effective the vehicle must be inspected annually by an authorised MG Repairer throughout the duration of the warranty period.

An MG Corrosion Warranty Annual Inspection Sheet must be filled out and the anti-perforation service documentation record stamped.

Anti-Perforation WarrantyTerms & Conditions

• The definition of perforation is: The corrosion or rusting through of a body panel on the vehicle from the inner surface through to the outer surface resulting in a physical hole.

• Anti-Perforation Warranty only applies to the following panels; Bonnet, roof, boot lid, tailgate, front wings, rear quarter panels, doors, side sills, pillars and underbody.

Exclusions

In some instances, your MG will not be covered, these include, but are not limited to;

• Perforation due to corrosion as a result of an accident, damage, modification, abuse, industrial fallout, or carrying corrosive or damaging materials, or external influences.

• Perforation due to corrosion caused by, the use of non-genuine MG parts, or parts not approved by MG, including used parts.

• Perforation due to corrosion resulting from a lack of maintenance, as described in the owner’s manual, misuse or abuse.

• An incomplete annual inspection record.

https://mg.co.uk/files/2019-08-35/WarrantyStatement2019-09-01.pdf

TBH, there does not seem to be much difference between the 2 manufacturers as they both refer to outside panels but MG also refer to the underbody in their latest warranty documentation.

The warranty for the ZS models registered from 2017 also contains the same warranty:

Anti-Perforation
The Warranty Period

The Anti-Perforation Warranty cover’s the vehicle against perforation due to rust-through of the body
panels for 7 years.

For this cover to remain effective the vehicle must be inspected annually by an authorised MG Repairer
throughout the duration of the warranty period. An MG Corrosion Warranty Annual Inspection Sheet must
be filled out and the anti-perforation service documentation record stamped.

Anti Perforation Warranty Terms & Conditions

 The definition of perforation is: The corrosion or rusting through of a body panel on the vehicle from the
inner surface through to the outer surface resulting in a physical hole.

 Anti-Perforation Warranty only applies to the following panels; Bonnet, roof, boot lid, tailgate, front
wings, rear quarter panels, doors, side sills, pillars and underbody.

https://mg.co.uk/files/2017-11-44/MGZSWarrantyStatement01112017.pdf

I do not understand why EV Puzzle went so ballistic on video about why MG would not give him a definitive answer as it's all there in black and white ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cheers..
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I came across a white 68 reg MG ZS Excite near work and had a quick look around and there were no signs of rust in the areas noted by Glenn in his blog.

The country code was Z like all of the other 68 reg MG's that I've come across.

It looks like Glenn was very unlucky with his car as well as the other 2 ZS owners whom have reported rust on theirs. :cry:

MG Motor UK should really be pushing the boat out to help the owners with this problem but it seems like they have learnt nothing from Dacia's rust issue.

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Discussion Starter #47
Interestingly, whilst looking on YouTube for the VIN of Thailand assembled ZS cars, I found that G in the VIN could represent a Thailand based factory if this sticker is to be believed:

133976


Source URL:


This means that my vehicle which is an 18 reg might have been built in the first Thailand factory and the ones with Z in the VIN were build in the more recent one.

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Discussion Starter #48

mattykan

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921 Posts
Discussion Starter • #16 a moment ago
Edit
Australian 2018 ZS models also have Z as the country code:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2018-MG-ZS-Excite-Plus-Auto-2WD-MY19/OAG-AD-17271986/
VIN LSJW74C94KZ019350
Registration Status Check with seller
Release Date December 2018
Build Date February 2018

Interestingly, the website says under specifications that the car was built in China:

Country of Origin CHINA
Launch Year 2018
Launch Month 12
Generation Name AZS1
Series AZS1
Model Year MY19
Badge Excite Plus
Doors 5
Seat Capacity 5
Body Style SUV

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Discussion Starter #49
Sri Lanka models are also Z and these have a sticker which has the word China on them:


133977


Does that mean that the dodgy car that Glenn had bought was made in China after all?

Source URL:


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Discussion Starter #51
Whilst reading up about the ZS EV on the Speak EV website, someone had posted a news article which mentioned that SAIC-GM were using a new process regards to corrosion prevention:

May 18, 2017 Düsseldorf / Germany

Henkel zirconium-based pretreatment solution drives technology upgrade

Setting New Benchmark: Henkel Helps SAIC-GM Make New Technological Breakthrough

Henkel Asia-Pacific announced that its automotive team had used Bonderite M-NT 1820 surface pretreatment technology to help SAIC General Motors Corporation Limited (known as SAIC-GM, a joint venture between General Motors Company and SAIC Motor) upgrade its car coating line.

The paint shop at SAIC-GM’s Jinqiao South plant, opened in 2003, used to employ Henkel’s traditional zinc phosphating pretreatment process to handle 300,000 units of passenger vehicles annually, including many premium models such as Buick Regal, Buick LaCrosse and Cadillac ATS-L. In May 2016, with full technology support from Henkel China, the paint shop upgraded its pretreatment process with zirconium thin film treatment which went into mass production merely after a one-week commissioning.

Kevin Cunningham, Pretreatment & Elpo Global Subject Matter Expert at General Motors, said to Terry Giles, Business Development Manager of Henkel Surface Treatment Global, “This upgrade is a success across Asia and will be viewed as a benchmark for future development by peers in the automotive manufacturing industry.”

Currently, almost all automotive OEMs are using traditional phosphating treatment processes. With their high-energy consumption, their use of heavy metals, and their creation of substantial solid and liquid waste streams, these processes are increasingly running up against ever-stricter environmental requirements. With a trend of more environment-friendly, cost-effective, high-quality and user-friendly pretreatment technology, Henkel launched Bonderite M-NT 1820 thin film pretreatment, a revolutionary technology that is viewed as an alternative to the traditional phosphating pretreatment. This ground-breaking solution will redefine the surface pretreatment technology in the automotive industry and set new standards for automotive manufacturers.

Bonderite M-NT 1820 surface pretreatment technology, as an alternative to traditional phosphating and passivation treatment, not only allows the treatment to coating process to be undertaken at room temperature without heating, but also fits all metal substrates, thus greatly shortening the process time and saving cost in equipment investment and process control. With Bonderite M-NT 1820, heavy metals, solid waste and waste water are all significantly reduced, thus saving resources and waste treatment cost. Since the processes of surface conditioning and passivation can be skipped, investment in process and equipment footprint are saved and the operational cost including water, electricity, gas and chemicals are reduced. With its excellent performance and strong capability of waste treatment and energy conservation, the Bonderite thin film technology has demonstrated high additional value to Henkel customers.

As a global leading supplier of automotive surface treatment products, Henkel is committed to green and energy efficient sustainable development and has never forgotten its social responsibility – to create more value for customers while helping them reduce environmental footprint. In 2016, Henkel won SURCAR Award for Environmental Footprint for the paint shop application of its Bonderite thin film pretreatment technology in passenger vehicle coating. The prize marks another milestone for Henkel in its pursuit of sustainable development.

Henkel is committed to developing solutions with cutting-edge technologies for automotive coating. Henkel is currently the leading service provider in the Chinese market to help customers renovate their outdated production lines by upgrading technologies, reducing the customer carbon footprint.

Source URL:


From the above statement, if SAIC are using the exact same process then it looks like they don't actually galvanise their bodyshells but use a film process instead.

The process does require that the actual bare metal itself is of good quality to begin with.

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Discussion Starter #52
Someone on the same thread that I took the Henkel news piece above also complained that their 18 month Dynamic red ZS was also showing signs of rust in the same areas that Glenn has noted.

<Quote>

Posted 4 months ago

Is anyone having issues with rust in the engine bay and bottom of bonnet? I have seen reports of issues on the underside of the car which initially didn't worry me to be honest. My car is only ~18 months old. Is this just cosmetic or something more serious? Never seen anything like this on my previous 8 year old X reg Peugeot or 9 year old Vauxhall. Thanks.
"
121606


121607


121608



</Quote>

Source URL:


18 months would put the car in the same time frame as my own one so it is probably time to start checking the engine bay for rust. :cry:

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Discussion Starter #53
From Henkel's website:

Features and Benefits
BONDERITE M-NT 1820 MU A


Phosphate-free, nano-ceramic conversion coating process.

BONDERITE® M-NT 1820 MU A is a phosphate-free, nano-ceramic conversion coating process that increases the corrosion resistance of painted metal surfaces. Formulated for use on steel, zinc and alumnium, the pre-treatment solution is applied by immersion applications at low temperature conditions.
  • Contains no regulated heavy metals
  • Optimizes running process steps and costs
  • Minimizes environmental impact
  • Reduces cost-intensive process modifications
Source URL:


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I am still waiting on the Ombudsman. They still seem to want more details from the Finance Company before doing any investigation. I think it will go in my favour but if not, I will do the repair and not the one offered by MG so I knows it's done. Then I will get rid of it I think as too many people having issues time and time again.
 

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rover_600
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I know I am just a sad old Scotsman, but I remember GMUK having a similar sort of problems with their victor cars in the early sixties.
I may be wrong but I am 99% sure I eventually got a cheque from them for the low 90 pounds. I was not the only person there were thousands of people compensated.
Back then that would have represented about 10% to 12% of the original purchase price. I can’t remember if it was for YSG 181 or for CSN 303C but it was one of these two which were my good lady’s cars both Victors.
GM then spent grater care in the rust proofing of all there cars and a fortune restoring faith in the Vauxhall name.
I have to say I would have thought sixty years on the motor industry would have improved, though I suspect everything has a price placed upon it and if it is cheaper to pay for an occasional repair and have some bad press than to recall and repair several thousand cars, the motor industry will favour option one.
“ Sir it due to the extremely aggressive weather conditions and the excessive amounts of Road Salt used where you live that is causing your car to rust prematurely”
Not fit for purpose!
Alan


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Discussion Starter #56
So an MG dealer has confirmed that the body is indeed not galvanised..

<Quote>

My new local dealer (who I am annoyingly not get the car through) is being very helpful and put some questions to MG for me and I now have the answers.

I asked that as the App is currently not available here but is in Thailand will the current car support the app when it is released in the UK and whether the chassis was galvanised and if not whether the dealers were being authorised to do any work pre delivery, this was primarily due to a visit to the dealer and I was allowed access under a customers year old fossil car and you could clearly see where the underseal was missing due to the production line process with some (but not much) corrosion.

Direct quote from his email
-----------------
Apps for the car are not available in the UK and there are no plans to launch it here in the near future with this in mind they cannot confirm anything regarding the app as to their minds they won’t be getting it.

With respect to the body/chassis, it has not been galvanised and MG will not be authorising dealers to add extra protection. Talking to the technician earlier the last 2 cars he has PDI’d these points have had some primer spray put on them before they were delivered to us. We don’t know whether this is going to continue but the official wording is no.
------------------

</Quote>

Source URL:


It seems like Waxoyl or Dinitrol is the way to go with these cars.

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Discussion Starter #57
I know I am just a sad old Scotsman, but I remember GMUK having a similar sort of problems with their victor cars in the early sixties.
I may be wrong but I am 99% sure I eventually got a cheque from them for the low 90 pounds. I was not the only person there were thousands of people compensated.
Back then that would have represented about 10% to 12% of the original purchase price. I can’t remember if it was for YSG 181 or for CSN 303C but it was one of these two which were my good lady’s cars both Victors.
GM then spent grater care in the rust proofing of all there cars and a fortune restoring faith in the Vauxhall name.
I have to say I would have thought sixty years on the motor industry would have improved, though I suspect everything has a price placed upon it and if it is cheaper to pay for an occasional repair and have some bad press than to recall and repair several thousand cars, the motor industry will favour option one.
“ Sir it due to the extremely aggressive weather conditions and the excessive amounts of Road Salt used where you live that is causing your car to rust prematurely”
Not fit for purpose!
Alan


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Sadly it seems like in the race to reduce costs and weight and increase profits, things that we took for granted like the spare tyre and thick paint protection seems to have been sacrificed.

This is not good for the customer and in the longer term the manufacturer when customers move away from the brand.

Who still remembers when Lancia had a reputation as being rust buckets?

Cheers..
 

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I have memories of one of our cars two seater sports in early 70s I think it was, not having a spare wheel as there was a tyre shortage, so the production line were not fitting spare wheels as it meant you got five cars for every four.
I also remember the recall to fit the spare wheel and tyre as the rear tracking was out on the car without the weight of the spare and it was causing premature bush failure and uneven tyre wear, so no real saving there. I can’t remember if it was Triumph or Austin. It was one of the family.


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Well it’s a goodbye from me. The financial ombudsman found in my favour, the finance company agreed with their findings and the car has now been collected. It’s bit of a shame as I liked the look of the car and it was comfortable to drive. I think the real issue is the lack of customer care and support by MG directly as in my experience they are really not that bothered
 

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I am delighted for you! I finally got fed up of the recurring faults scs.eps, seat bolsters coming apart, groaning from gearbox, door handles sticking,,,MG Motors UK don't give a SH*t in my humble opinion. Have got a tremendous deal on a brand new Kia Sportage via Carwow (JCB Ebbsfleet) £4600 off retail for little more than the price of a ZS exclusive. The dealer is buying my car back...but there again, my dealer has always been superb.
 
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