MG-Rover.org Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
rover_streetwise
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I change the cam belt for the second time on my 2004 2.0L Diesel Streetwise locating the dowel correctly into the flywheel and changed the belt and retightened the tensioner. Leaving the dowel in place, I then, having inserted the FIP pin, changed the injection pump belt. However it appears I had not fully driven home the FIP pin, there was no movement on changing either belts and I knew what to expect in handling them. Having tighten the tension on the injection pump belt, I then rotated the crank 2 rotations to check the alignment. Now it appears something is not right. below is the situation I have with the timing marks. During replacing both belts there was no movement of the pulleys for either.
flywheel dowel in.jpg
locking dowing in.jpg


With the FIP pin now correctly in place I now have the cam belt timing mark out

cambelt timing mark - FIP in.jpg

Advice please on how to unf*&k this:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
729 Posts
Hi

Sorry to hear you are having problems.

Have you read through the answers in this post:

 

·
Registered
rover_streetwise
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply, I sorted the cam belt had to take it off and realign the marks all good now. but one issue I cannot find an answer to is that I had to rotate the FIP to get the pin to go fully into the hole. Camshaft locking pin was in place so that is correct but I don't know how many rotations the FIP has to send fuel to the right cylinder.
I have not started the engine yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
729 Posts
Does the info in these threads about the FIP give you any clues?


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
729 Posts
I checked with a friend who suggests:

Fuel pump is 1:1 drive from camshaft so as long as cam is timed OK and pump dowel fits all will be good with the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
Be very carful you don't damage the valves. If you have any doubt do not start the engine. If the belt is one tooth out the pistons will strike the valves. First of all lock the crankshaft at the rear of the flywheel housing using a 6.3 mm drill bit. This locks pistons 1 and 4 at TDC. The camshaft mark must align exactly with the mark on the rear cover, the same mark shown on your photo. If you cannot align exactly by moving the pulley a whole tooth then the pully has slipped on the camshaft and this must be put right. It is dowelled but I have seen the dowel pin shear due to belt breakage. Once this is correct you can time the fuel pump using the hole in the fuel pump pulley. Do not assume it is correctly times from the fuel pump. Any timing error will destroy your valves.
 

·
Registered
rover_streetwise
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the reply Jaycee, earlier I checked with Mat at DMGRS who got back to me with the same, very relieved to read that. @ Bunny_Brain thanks for the reminder, I only turned on the crank by hand to discover it was one tooth out, I got a helping hand to make sure the marks stayed lined up when I put the belt on a second time.
 

·
Registered
rover_sd1
Joined
·
411 Posts
Hi Please take this as it comes. This works well if you remove the Injectors first as it smooths the turning process.
The PIF pin appears to be off vertical. You may be along side the location hole in the block. The procedure should have been that you set the pins before stripping to fit the belt.
Regarding the one tooth out , I suggest that you first remove the number one injector then insert a straw or thin screw driver to make sure you are at TDC. There have been occasions where the mechanic mistakenly fits the crank shaft pin 180 degrees out resulting in picture Four.

Remove the PIF belt If the timing mark is off. Remove the cam belt then positioning the valves to closed on number one cylinder this should set the timing mark to TDC the correct position. It may help to have the valve covers off to make sure the cams on number one are as near to horizontal as possible.

The tricky part now is the turn the engine crank shaft counter clock wise. 180 degrees should be fine. Please note do not use BFI be gentle as you may lock up a piston against a open value. If so try counter clockwise. Relocate the pin in the fly wheel Double check that have tdc on number one. Now re fit the cam belt with location pin in place.
Be sure not to move the timing marks. Now is time to rotate the engine two turns either way then refit the flywheel pin. It should fall in if you have everything in place and aligned.
. Understand it is so easy to be a tooth out of timing. If a tooth out of timing, remove the belt and try again. It is a total sod I know but best safe that sorry. If you have the correct belt I seem to think its is a 144 tooth belt count the belt teeth.

Loosen at lest two turn the three / four bolts holding the timing gear on the rear of the cam. You do not want it to slop resulting in the gear out of alignment. Check and recheck that the PIF pin is actually in its hole. Once you are sure fit the PIF belt. Leaving the bolts on the rear gear loose.

Follow this with a refitting the pif belt to required tension. In doing this try you best the fit the belt so that the rear gear bolts are at half way point in the slot when the belt is in place. This will allow some play and belt stretch to be taken up either side. You will know if the four bolts are not perfectly centered as when you tighten the bolts the PIF pin is hard to remove.

Turn the engine over in both directions then check all marks as well as PIF belt tension and TDC then flywheel pin is RE located. A new belt may appear out by half a tooth. There will always be line of sight discrepancies. Do not worry about this . This is a good time to check basic compressions just in case you have a valve bent in the initial struggle as outlined by you. Complete assembly. DO NOT FORGET THAT YOU SHOULD CORRECTLY PRIME THE INJECTORS BEFOR STARTING UP.
Refit
 

·
Registered
rover_streetwise
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Ok so I am certain the cam belt timing is correct and inserted the cam belt locking pin then lined up the fuel injection pump pin as shown here:
135732


it goes in 50 mm
135733

Very smooth travel, retightened everything but trying to start car, nothing with someone turning the engine over, I could only smelt a faint amount of burnt diesel which could be residue in the exhaust anyway. What I don't get is if the pin is in the right place and smooth travel, cam is locked and the FIP ratio is 1 to 1, why this is not showing signs of fuel going through the pump. I have not touched the pump at all or the injectors. I did pump the priming bulb on the fuel filter.

Does the pump gear look to be in the right position ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
The timing slot in the pump case is at 12 O' Clock so I don't think you are in the correct position with the pump. The pin should be in vertical alignment with the pump shaft, you are at 1 O' Clock.
 

·
Registered
mg_zs
Joined
·
78 Posts
Looks like you have the drill bit fully inserted to me, however, I've done this job a couple of times and using the pin only is not a reliable way to set the FIP belt timing. I found it put the timing out by -2 degrees on mine, which made the engine difficult to start, 15-20 seconds of cranking. I had to manually move the belt adjustment pulley about another 1-2mm further anti-clockwise to get the timing to 0 degrees (measured on a Scangauge)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
Looks like you have the drill bit fully inserted to me, however, I've done this job a couple of times and using the pin only is not a reliable way to set the FIP belt timing. I found it put the timing out by -2 degrees on mine, which made the engine difficult to start, 15-20 seconds of cranking. I had to manually move the belt adjustment pulley about another 1-2mm further anti-clockwise to get the timing to 0 degrees (measured on a Scangauge)
Fully inserted maybe but in the wrong place. You can get between webs in the pump end casting.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top